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Post by hillbill on Apr 1, 2018 10:31:35 GMT -5
The way I see it, this champions league is good for regional play. Regional league has been diluted the past couple of years due to these bigger clubs bullying the league into allowing there second and thirds teams into play (who lose every week).
My experience watching my kid play U13 RPL this year has been a good one, apart from one team the competition was very strong:
Tophats second team finished bottom 3 (future ECNL team). UFA top team couldn’t break into the top 5 (future DA team).
That tells me enough that the level of this future champions league will be poor and the level of RPL will remain very good.
Ultimately:
UFA 2nd team- average AFU 2nd team- average GSA 2nd team- average Tophats third team- pretty good Concordes third team- poor
Calling this league the “champions league” is quite hilarious. It’s more like the castaway league.
Any parents that get sold this new league should be very very wary. It’s a way to keep you paying your bills ! Enjoy
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 1, 2018 11:06:33 GMT -5
The way I see it, this champions league is good for regional play. Regional league has been diluted the past couple of years due to these bigger clubs bullying the league into allowing there second and thirds teams into play (who lose every week). My experience watching my kid play U13 RPL this year has been a good one, apart from one team the competition was very strong: Tophats second team finished bottom 3 (future ECNL team). UFA top team couldn’t break into the top 5 (future DA team). That tells me enough that the level of this future champions league will be poor and the level of RPL will remain very good. Ultimately: UFA 2nd team- average AFU 2nd team- average GSA 2nd team- average Tophats third team- pretty good Concordes third team- poor Calling this league the “champions league” is quite hilarious. It’s more like the castaway league. Any parents that get sold this new league should be very very wary. It’s a way to keep you paying your bills ! Enjoy You are making a big assumption that the teams remain the same (players not moving around). For example, SSA u13 girls team is a powerhouse. There are several girls on that team who could move to Tophat, Concorde, or UFA and make those teams much stronger. There will often be individual players on lower level teams that could go to "better" teams. UFA Norcross has an excellent player in #5 who could improve a DA or ECNL team thus dropping players to a second or third team. SSA White (an Athena B team) has #15 who could play on an ECNL or DA team easily. There is an 05 girl playing on UFA u14 premier who transferred in from another club who could make a DA team better and drop kids down. There is a really good girl on Smyrna U13. There is so much movement that occurs that it is not possible to predict. Not too mention improvement of individual players and different coaches and their style of play suiting a team better. One thing I have seen over the years is that Tophat and Concorde just get better and deeper every year and their third teams are often MUCH better than small club's top teams especially by U15 and U16. With UFA having DA it may eventually happen their as well. Another question about U13 RPL is what will happen to LSA? After all they will be NTH Sharks. Will they be like NTH Quest Park and Metro North? Will they be playing RPL or will they be told they can't? How much does the "alliance" affect them? They will be a Tophat named team and wearing Tophat uniforms after all. I also think everyone should stop saying that all of the second and third teams at big clubs did poorly in RPL. That is actually not true. I have looked at the girls side and there were very few teams that did poorly. Most stayed midtable or higher. Look at the data from Fall. Finally, you are drawing your opinions based on one age group and one gender? Girls U13 RPL? That is not a great way to look at things. They just started promotion relegation and their placement is a guess at best. It takes a few seasons for everything to settle especially since there was a ton of movement last year with the start of DA and the new U13 age group for ECNL.
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Post by putmeincoach on Apr 1, 2018 19:54:55 GMT -5
Forget about U13 girls just look at how every one of these second and third teams faired. They were all crushed, not one performed even decently. Don't understand why anyone cares if these teams play in a different league as all of them were being relegated anyways. RPL premier Divison will be a great league now. All teams there on merit.
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Post by hillbill on Apr 1, 2018 20:34:27 GMT -5
Agreed....just had a quick look at the U14 RPL league and GSA, Concorde, tophat all finished in the bottom 4....the only times they ever scored was when they played against each other.
I don’t blame these teams for wanting to break away from all the traveling with results like these........I just find it humorous billing this as the “champions league.” Anyone with half a brain can read between the lines.
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Post by soccerdaddy on Apr 1, 2018 21:05:26 GMT -5
I agree it’s good for RPL but my opinion is that the parents in the Big 5 turn out to be the Champions here. Saving money and time. If/when their son or daughter is good enough they will make the top team at the Big 5.
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Post by soccerdaddy on Apr 1, 2018 21:31:12 GMT -5
Big 5 Parents and players have some choices. Strive for DA or ECNL, whichever is top or stay a level or 2 down and don’t worry about the travel. If the competition is not good enough or can’t get to the top teams, then they can always look to other clubs if they want to travel. My opinion is I don’t see why you should travel outside of DA? Just seems like a Big $$$ Money grab that Parents are funding. Not our fault funding the bill but shame on these leagues and USSF. Why can’t we just work it out at least here in GA? There are a lot of talented players in big and small clubs all over GA.
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Post by hillbill on Apr 2, 2018 17:14:55 GMT -5
I agree with you.....I’d like to know how other bigger clubs view their second and third teams and whether there is a system in place for these players to move up levels based on their performances.
My kids team does not typically have much to do with our second level team- I’d imagine scrimmages would be very lopsided results. Ultimately if players find themselves on a third team at the likes of UFA it’s highly unlikely they’ll be working their way up to a top level team. If you’re practicing with mediocre players and competiting against lower level teams it doesn’t take long to be left behind.
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Post by spectator on Apr 2, 2018 18:19:42 GMT -5
I agree with you.....I’d like to know how other bigger clubs view their second and third teams and whether there is a system in place for these players to move up levels based on their performances. My kids team does not typically have much to do with our second level team- I’d imagine scrimmages would be very lopsided results. Ultimately if players find themselves on a third team at the likes of UFA it’s highly unlikely they’ll be working their way up to a top level team. If you’re practicing with mediocre players and competiting against lower level teams it doesn’t take long to be left behind. One other assumption here is that the big clubs willpromote from tgat third team. They won’t- they will recruit to replace top players - always happens. If you are on the #3 team at a big club you will only move up by leaving. The big clubs will be playing musical chairs with players. Thats not development- that’s positioning
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 2, 2018 18:46:51 GMT -5
I agree with you.....I’d like to know how other bigger clubs view their second and third teams and whether there is a system in place for these players to move up levels based on their performances. My kids team does not typically have much to do with our second level team- I’d imagine scrimmages would be very lopsided results. Ultimately if players find themselves on a third team at the likes of UFA it’s highly unlikely they’ll be working their way up to a top level team. If you’re practicing with mediocre players and competiting against lower level teams it doesn’t take long to be left behind. One other assumption here is that the big clubs willpromote from tgat third team. They won’t- they will recruit to replace top players - always happens. If you are on the #3 team at a big club you will only move up by leaving. The big clubs will be playing musical chairs with players. Thats not development- that’s positioning I have heard that from others and saw several leave for that reason. They actually told us that was the reason. However, I have seen players get promoted from the 4th team to the top team, 4th team to 2nd team, 3rd team to top team all of those kids in one season at one club. Friends of ours had kids promoted from second team to top team in mid season (onto an ECNL team).
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Post by hillbill on Apr 2, 2018 19:39:23 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe a player would go from a 4th team to a 1st team. That would insinuate a serious evaluation problem with the club on tryout day. The only other reason I could think is that the player missed the tryout day and got promoted pretty quickly. It speaks volumes for players that are able to build up from a lower level team to a top team but I think it’s a very rare occurrence.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 2, 2018 21:39:52 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe a player would go from a 4th team to a 1st team. That would insinuate a serious evaluation problem with the club on tryout day. The only other reason I could think is that the player missed the tryout day and got promoted pretty quickly. It speaks volumes for players that are able to build up from a lower level team to a top team but I think it’s a very rare occurrence. It is rare but not impossible. It wasn't an evaluation problem on tryout day. The first year she tried out she made the 4th team (she had played rec only one season before that). She is a natural athlete with speed and a great work ethic. The real mistake is that she should have been moved during the season to a higher team her first year in academy. Same thing for the 3rd to 1st team kid. Speed and work ethic. She worked hard on her own to improve. It is hard to move up, but if you work hard outside of team practice and games it can be done.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 18:57:07 GMT -5
AFU dropped out of the champion's league because of the way it is to be run. So did BUSA and CESA. So, the big 5 will play games only against the other four. That will get pretty boring quickly. That will leave an ecnl club like AFU ruling the Athena A bracket and getting to RPL.
AFU is taking a wait and see approach until Champion's League gets the kinks worked out.
Also, they aren't telling their members yet because they want them to stay, but CF and TH will have to choose between DA and ECNL. At the meeting this was ruled on.
Many of those kids will be displaced and looking for other clubs to join, making UFA and AFU stronger in the coming years.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 3, 2018 20:18:07 GMT -5
AFU dropped out of the champion's league because of the way it is to be run. So did BUSA and CESA. So, the big 5 will play games only against the other four. That will get pretty boring quickly. That will leave an ecnl club like AFU ruling the Athena A bracket and getting to RPL. AFU is taking a wait and see approach until Champion's League gets the kinks worked out. Also, they aren't telling their members yet because they want them to stay, but CF and TH will have to choose between DA and ECNL. At the meeting this was ruled on. Many of those kids will be displaced and looking for other clubs to join, making UFA and AFU stronger in the coming years. If all of this is true 1) Tophat and Concorde are forced to choose 2) AFU and outside the state quality clubs are not playing I really don't understand how this benefits the big 5 clubs that are doing the champions league. Is there someone on this forum who has a 2nd or 3rd team kid (girl or boy) that thinks that by not playing RPL and instead playing the other 4 clubs' teams that will improve their child's soccer experience? As an aside I have friends whose kids are playing on these teams and are fine with the travel and the quality of the experience. I am just looking for an alternative answer. Maybe the idea is that Concorde and Tophat drop ECNL and that leaves all of the affected teams as second teams? My next concern is...what happens if a third team then wins Athena A and gets promoted? They instead get sucked into this league? Could happen. Tophat often has very strong third teams.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 3, 2018 20:36:54 GMT -5
Also, they aren't telling their members yet because they want them to stay, but CF and TH will have to choose between DA and ECNL. At the meeting this was ruled on. What meeting was this voted on?
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Post by hillbill on Apr 3, 2018 20:39:47 GMT -5
I think that the main issue with these second and third teams in RPL is that oftentimes (not saying everytime) they haven’t actually earned that placing. In the past, teams have departed to DA or ECNL and these spots have been passed onto lower level teams.
I’ll use U13 at the moment as an example, Tophat and UFA will depart to ECNL and DA, in the past these RPL spots would be passed onto their lower level teams without considering their positioning in Athena. This is one thing that should be addressed.....I find it ironic that RPL has catered to these teams and they are now turning their backs on regional play.
I think playing the same team three times in the same season is going to get boring really quick......players need to face different styles and challenges weekly, not the same old same old. I’d compare it to tournaments both post and pre season, nobody wants to come up against the same old teams you’ve already played twice in the past 6 months.
If the latest post is right and tophat lose one of ECNL or DA these games in the ‘champions league’ may also get ugly real quick. Imagine getting beat 6-0 then you’ve got to go play that team another 2 or 3 times!
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Post by SoccerMom on Apr 3, 2018 21:07:07 GMT -5
AFU dropped out of the champion's league because of the way it is to be run. So did BUSA and CESA. So, the big 5 will play games only against the other four. That will get pretty boring quickly. That will leave an ecnl club like AFU ruling the Athena A bracket and getting to RPL. AFU is taking a wait and see approach until Champion's League gets the kinks worked out. Also, they aren't telling their members yet because they want them to stay, but CF and TH will have to choose between DA and ECNL. At the meeting this was ruled on. Many of those kids will be displaced and looking for other clubs to join, making UFA and AFU stronger in the coming years. AFU didn't drop out, the other clubs didn't want them there because no one gets along with their DOC. They were not invited to participate. AFU has been struggling and will continue struggling. They have ECNL as their top team and they still can't be at the top. Unfortunately, top players will go to the 3 DA clubs first, then they will try to go to NTH and CF ECNL...and then they can choose between GSA and AFU. NTH is not losing ECNL, they kept their end of the bargain and have teams in playoffs like they were asked. CF I have no idea.
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Post by atv on Apr 4, 2018 5:44:45 GMT -5
Did BUSA, CESA drop out of the Champions league?
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Post by soccerdaddy on Apr 4, 2018 8:21:29 GMT -5
I think it will be lucrative for Families/Players that can't or don't want to travel even if they are good enough for DA/ECNL/RPL. This is also a question about the numbers being produced here. If the Big 5 has an average of 4 - 6 teams per age group per gender then they will be producing some quality teams.
Would you agree with me that not all of the best players are in DA/ECNL today? I think that would be ludicrous to state such a thing. Remember, the talent in GA is all over the place.
Another thing, I know several families that choose to stay out of US DA/Youth/Club Soccer because of the cost. They played Academy and Select on scholarships but the travel is killing their families financially and time consuming. You can't convince most families with that weekend struggle to drive hours away for a 1 - 2 hour game. From Gainesville to Savannah, Mableton to Marietta, Villa Rica to Forsyth, Ashford Dunwoody to Warner Robins, Canton to LaGrange. These are not easy drives and takes out your weekend.
Believe it or not, there are a lot of "Diamond in the Rough" places that are local but not USSF / US Club / US Youth soccer affiliated. They play at the same place, same time, but different teams. I know a lot of families/players that would be interested in the Big 5, knowing they didn't have to drive more than an hour.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 4, 2018 9:23:04 GMT -5
I think that the main issue with these second and third teams in RPL is that oftentimes (not saying everytime) they haven’t actually earned that placing. In the past, teams have departed to DA or ECNL and these spots have been passed onto lower level teams. I’ll use U13 at the moment as an example, Tophat and UFA will depart to ECNL and DA, in the past these RPL spots would be passed onto their lower level teams without considering their positioning in Athena. This is one thing that should be addressed.....I find it ironic that RPL has catered to these teams and they are now turning their backs on regional play. So I agree that it is not perfect that a team like UFA's second team or Tophat' s third team from this year's U13 age bracket would end up in RPL. The rule is supposed to be to keep your place in Athena you are supposed to have half of your players (or equivalent level) stay on the team. I presume that RPL would want the same consideration. That is a super vague and subjective thing though. Even in a regular year (not the beginning of ECNL or DA) that number of kids switching is possible. Secondly, that really only affects the U14 and U15 age groups for girls. For the boys with some clubs going down in the number of DA clubs after U15 they have the opposite problem. HOWEVER, promotion/relegation should fix that anyway. Isn't that why we like that component of RPL ? So if those teams don't have players up to the task they will lose and get relegated and if a smaller club is dominating Athena A they will get promoted instead. So you can only "cheat" the system for one season at most. I completely agree that it is a slap in the face to RPL that they catered to these teams and then those teams turn their back on RPL.
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Post by ga3v3 on Apr 4, 2018 10:23:04 GMT -5
I agree that the Champions league will have little to no impact on the RPL leagues competitiveness just based on the one age group that I witness on a week to week basis- boys CLI u13. Not one of the big 5s (or AFU) second team is even close to being competitive enough to make it into RPL.
GSA pre-encl (1st team)was by far the most competitive team followed by AFUs pre-ecnl(1st team), 2 Smyrna teams and Inter who all qualified for RPL this spring.
UFA Norcross, Forsyth and Concorde Central are fairly competitive teams but still only middle of the classic 1 groups. NTH, SSA, and the other Concorde teams are bottom of the barrel. I’m not sure if this is consistent with the older groups or not?
So at least for the younger age groups it looks like it could be a good option for the 2nd or 3rd teams which aren’t competitive enough anyway to make it into the regional league with little impact on the rest of the clubs.
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Post by soccerdaddy on Apr 10, 2018 7:33:35 GMT -5
LESS teams out of Georgia means MORE traveling for RPL. NOT GOOD if you ask me for Soccer Development or your Bank Account. RPL sounds rough and time consuming 🙁
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Post by soccerdadf on Apr 26, 2018 16:43:59 GMT -5
soccerdaddy, my daughter played RPL last season and I can confirm from our team's experience that it was very rough, time consuming, and added a lot of extra costs that weren't needed in order to get competitive games. Very unorganized, often had late cancellation of games (i.e. less than 24 hrs notice before a long out of state trip), and just terrible communication (per our Team Manager) all season. The sad thing is that we really only got 3-4 competitive games. I'm positive we could have gotten the same level of competition and at least the same number of quality games by playing the 2nd/3rd best teams from local clubs (the Big 5/6) in the Atlanta area.
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Post by soccerdaddy on Apr 26, 2018 16:47:02 GMT -5
soccerdaddy, my daughter played RPL last season and I can confirm from our team's experience that it was very rough, time consuming, and added a lot of extra costs that weren't needed in order to get competitive games. Very unorganized, often had late cancellation of games (i.e. less than 24 hrs notice before a long out of state trip), and just terrible communication (per our Team Manager) all season. The sad thing is that we really only got 3-4 competitive games. I'm positive we could have gotten the same level of competition and at least the same number of quality games by playing the 2nd/3rd best teams from local clubs (the Big 5/6) in the Atlanta area. Thanks for the info! I’m sorry and hope it gets better soon! The problem is that the teams your playing are also fielding DA and or ECNL ☹️
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 17:24:04 GMT -5
AFU dropped out of the champion's league because of the way it is to be run. So did BUSA and CESA. So, the big 5 will play games only against the other four. That will get pretty boring quickly. That will leave an ecnl club like AFU ruling the Athena A bracket and getting to RPL. AFU is taking a wait and see approach until Champion's League gets the kinks worked out. Also, they aren't telling their members yet because they want them to stay, but CF and TH will have to choose between DA and ECNL. At the meeting this was ruled on. Many of those kids will be displaced and looking for other clubs to join, making UFA and AFU stronger in the coming years. AFU didn't drop out, the other clubs didn't want them there because no one gets along with their DOC. They were not invited to participate. AFU has been struggling and will continue struggling. They have ECNL as their top team and they still can't be at the top. Unfortunately, top players will go to the 3 DA clubs first, then they will try to go to NTH and CF ECNL...and then they can choose between GSA and AFU. NTH is not losing ECNL, they kept their end of the bargain and have teams in playoffs like they were asked. CF I have no idea.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 17:30:56 GMT -5
And which DOC are you talking about? AFU doesn't have a club wide DOC....Mirza? Hoover? Tavani? No one gets along with which one of these guys? EVERY club is run by someone that most others don't like. And AFU wasn't kicked out. They were one of the few members who were in the original brainstorming session to create a champions league.
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Post by SoccerMom on Apr 30, 2018 17:40:18 GMT -5
And which DOC are you talking about? AFU doesn't have a club wide DOC....Mirza? Hoover? Tavani? No one gets along with which one of these guys? EVERY club is run by someone that most others don't like. And AFU wasn't kicked out. They were one of the few members who were in the original brainstorming session to create a champions league. No one is denying the fact that they were in the original brainstorming, they were. One of those 3 yes, I will let you figure it out on your own.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 17:48:12 GMT -5
And which DOC are you talking about? AFU doesn't have a club wide DOC....Mirza? Hoover? Tavani? No one gets along with which one of these guys? EVERY club is run by someone that most others don't like. And AFU wasn't kicked out. They were one of the few members who were in the original brainstorming session to create a champions league. No one is denying the fact that they were in the original brainstorming, they were. One of those 3 yes, I will let you figure it out on your own.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 17:51:27 GMT -5
But you are the one claiming to know who it is so why not say it? If you know. I mean, you have no problem throwing out there a position and sounding pretty much like you have all the inside scoop, so please, tell us which of the three it is??
Come on, if you are going to be an expert on such matters, by all means, don't hide behind your claim. Claim it!!
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Post by SoccerMom on Apr 30, 2018 18:01:08 GMT -5
But you are the one claiming to know who it is so why not say it? If you know. I mean, you have no problem throwing out there a position and sounding pretty much like you have all the inside scoop, so please, tell us which of the three it is?? Come on, if you are going to be an expert on such matters, by all means, don't hide behind your claim. Claim it!! We know you are from AFU, are you worried its you? I'm not going to put his name out there, he knows all the crap he has done and how many people he has pissed off. I have never met the man, only know him by name and reputation.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 30, 2018 19:02:20 GMT -5
But you are the one claiming to know who it is so why not say it? If you know. I mean, you have no problem throwing out there a position and sounding pretty much like you have all the inside scoop, so please, tell us which of the three it is?? Come on, if you are going to be an expert on such matters, by all means, don't hide behind your claim. Claim it!! You didn't want to put out your proof of AFU's ability to stay in RPL despite having ECNL, why would someone else want to throw out info? You don't share yours! I think people are getting a little mean towards others here. Let's settle down. AFU seems to have been left out of both groups...big 5 and the "little guys." Seems a little strange that no one wants them in their group when given size and the ECNL membership you would think they would be with big 5.
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